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More of us than they realize. |
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The looters will not see the insanity of their ideology until it collapses around their feet.
So… lets not prolong the agony.
Productive people of the world -- Unite behind John Galt!
“Hoping” Obama will have "change of heart" is not wishful thinking, John. It is breathtaking naiveté. Did they serve kool-aid when you had that surgery ?
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Yeah, I know, she's dead. Would be a distinct improvement, all the same. |
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"Productive people of the world -- Unite behind John Galt!"
Right. All of you "Atlases" go off to your "secret enclave" and watch the world collapse. That's really sensible, realistic - and patriotic, too. |
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Atlas Shrugged is currently #54 on Amazon's best sellers list; pretty amazing for a book that was first published in 1957. The book should be required reading for all elected officials. And when they are done with Atlas Shrugged, they should read The Fountainhead.
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Always looking for a guru. What, did you finally realize Reagan is dead? Or perhaps it is sinking in that Reaganomics didn't actually work and in fact led us to the brink of total ruin. Now, on to even more irrelevant and clueless logic. Maybe a Ouija board will help? |
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Your ability to gravitate towards cultish happened when you voted for the COW!! And, you want to call us out for standing up against this fukked up stimulus?
I don't suppose you follow Michael Moore, do you? hahahahaha. Another village Idiot.
And get a thesaurus, would you? You need a new word for irrelevant. Then go and get back to the Moonbat cave you live in and study hard. |
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I guess the trolls did not read the book?
The world collapses when you punish the innovators, the hard working individuals and those who create jobs; much like what Obama and team are doing right now and plan to do further down the road with high taxes.
Is a global strike feasible the way it is conducted in Atlas Shrugged, probably not? But those who create jobs and products are going to work a less hard when for every $1 they make they get to keep only $0.40. They are not going to hire as many people. They are not going to have as much money to spend and invest.
Let me explain it to you in a way even a dorm rat could understand. If your teacher or professor told you no matter how hard you try you try you will only get C, would you work hard and study for your enjoyment? I doubt it! There are some out there who might really like the topic and work hard and strive for the unattainable A, but most of you would be on your computer playing video games.
Read the book, look at what happens to Henry Rearden. Mr. Rearden creates the best steel, always makes his deliveries on time and he is punished for it in many ways. The socialists go so far to pass laws that other people can copy Rearden’s steel since it is “unfair” that he has the best steel and nobody can sell it other than him.
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Atlas Shrugged/Ayn Rand is much bigger than most realize.
I posted in detail a few days ago about how there are Ayn Rand interconnecting clubs in NZ and AU -- and I believe in Great Britain. The members of these clubs, from what I seen in NZ, are important people who put a lot of money into these clubs. The one I visited would shame many of the top of the line private clubs in London. Don't know if there are such clubs in the US -- never heard of one.
What is really scary is anybody with half a brain and half a stern can now put the names of real-world people to the characters in Ayn Rand. |
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"The world collapses when you punish the innovators, the hard working individuals and those who create jobs; much like what Obama and team are doing right now and plan to do further down the road with high taxes."
Well, the top tax bracket was higher under Reagan than it will be under Obama's bill. Funny, I missed when the world collapses because the government was punishing the innovators.
You could make a better case that the opposite has happened since the conservative ascendancy. The productivity of American workers has skyrocketed over the last 25 years, but their real wages have remained about the same. Meanwhile, a shrinking percentage of rich people controls a growing percentage of the wealth. Tell us again who is being "punished." |
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[Well, the top tax bracket was higher under Reagan]
Well, Reagan was an actor previously, so it's fairly obvious that he was a secret communist. :P
["The world collapses when you punish the innovators, the hard working individuals and those who create jobs"]
"John Galt, outraged that anybody would even suggest that he or the company he worked for owed anything to the nation that provided his education, protected him from infectious disease outbreaks, protected him from Communist invasion, built the roads that got him to work each day, provided the police that kept him safe, and provided the court system that protected his property rights at all, sabotaged the Galt Engine, so nobody could have it.
Then he went further and, in a fit of offended pique, promised to "stop the motor of the world," to kill 90% or so of Earth's population by intentionally wrecking the economy. Which he then did."
This is the hero, mind you, of the book. :) |
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"Well, the top tax bracket was higher under Reagan than it will be under Obama's bill."
Nice try - Reagan cut the top tax bracket to 28%, it was 70% when he was elected. The current top tax bracket is 35% and Obama wants to raise it to 39.6%. |
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I would be curious to know just how many of these neo-Randians actually had the necessary skill set to survive without the social apparatus to support them.
I'd personally give them about two weeks before their Objectivist paradise broke down because all of the financial 'geniuses' who came up with derivatives didn't have a bloody clue about how to grow or process food, build a basic shelter, or hunt. |
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Pardon me if I'm wrong, but, if you emigrated here from Europe, why don't you reverse course? You seem to prefer a high-tax, low-productivity nanny-state over self-reliance and independence. |
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raelei,
i'm curious as to how old you are? do you work,own a home, have a 401K plan, savings,have any stock in the stock market? if you say yes to these questions, then you should be in the tank like the rest of us and if this is so, i am interested in how you can go along with obamba's policies? what is it that you like about his monetary policies? please no attacks, just curious about your liberal thinking. |
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So the government provided us all those wonderful things? I always thought it was the citizens. Silly me. |
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You might want to read the book again. . .
The non-producers, were the ones ruining the world -- not the producers.
And, Sir, you might want to read other web sites. There are hells of postings oconcerning folks buying guns, (huge shortage of guns and ammo right now) planning to hunt their own meat and planning big gardens this summer. (Hint: It does not take too much ground to raise one hell of a lot of food; many did it during WW II -- called 'em Victory Gardens. I raised enough veggies to feed six of us in a plot about 20 X 30. That was in pretty poor soil in CA -- had to use a grunch of manure.)
I agree with you in part. Those lauded and thought superior in today's society will the the first to fall by the wayside. The hillbillies, hicks, rednecks, plumbers, blue collar types, etc., will survive nicely -- just as they always have. |
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I understand the concept just fine. I just happen to disagree with Objectivism and libertarian anarchists who imagine that they owe nothing to posterity or to those who came before them for building the foundations upon which they stand.
Like the government or not (and I'm not fond of it) in many ways, we owe a lot of what we have to the founders and to the blessings we were given as Americans. And yes, some of those blessings happen to take the form of public goods which were provided by the government via our tax dollars.
So, to complain and threaten to take our ball and go home because the Feds decide to let the Bush tax cuts expire seems rather petulant to me. YMMV. |
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Nice post and I agree with most of it.
It is just not letting Bush tax cuts expire. Neither is it the actions of the democrats who won and now have the entire ball of wax and don't seem to be listening to the citizens. The republicans didn't listen either.
Folks are becoming increasingly fed up with the ignorance and crookedness displayed by those in WASHDC and something is going to pop -- what I would not hazard a guess. |
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There doesn't need to be a conspiracy of productive geniuses going on strike against injustice to take down a part socialist, part fascist regime. All it takes are people doing just a little less than they might have. One less good idea, one less hour of excellence is all that is required to destroy a society.
There is a reason that both the Communists and the Nazis believed that a new, selfless man would spontaneously appear in their worker's or racial paradises. They know that collectivism is not consistent with the requirements of human survival, not consistent with life itself.
For most people, slavery is a blessing. They abhor making the decisions that life requires and eagerly accept the rule of any bully with a gun and a cult bible. It is only the truly great minds that cannot endure the psychic prison of collectivism. Those minds, upon which we all depend, are the ones that will shut down and with them, all of civilization.
Perhaps, in a thousand years people will once again try to build a civilized world in which greatness is admired and productive work is respected. Then again, maybe not. |
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"The productivity of American workers has skyrocketed over the last 25 years, but their real wages have remained about the same."
When productivity skyrockets, "real wages" necessarily also skyrocket, because increased productivity means a larger pool of goods and services available for purchase. If productivity increases, but people's wealth does not, then it means that there is a distortion in the market, invariably caused by government intervention, that causes market participants to produce the wrong goods, which means that resources are being wasted in increasingly productive ways.
The workers at my "Pizza Flavored Soda Company" may be the most productive workers of any of the soft drink companies, but if nobody is buying pizza-flavored soda, then it's a waste of resources; the equipment and labor at my company could have been better used at soda companies whose products people actually buy. And the only reason that the Pizza-flavored soda company can continue to operate, or to even be in business in the first place, when the product is not demanded by consumers, is because of government intervention, primarily through the inflation of the money supply, and the banks' subsequent expansion of credit. |
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[Folks are becoming increasingly fed up with the ignorance and crookedness displayed by those in WASHDC]
And I think it extends beyond this and includes a lot of the shady characters on Wall St, as well. And it incorporates a sense that these 'free market capitalists' have very close ties to the Washington establishment which allows them to socialize their losses at our expense.
Note that no one is calling for the Steve Jobs or Bill Gates of the world to have all of their income seized.
We don't hate the truly enterprising, we hate the fact that the losers on Wall St are teaming up with the losers in Washington to screw us all over. |
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Obama's plans for controlling the healthcare system will cause many doctors to "go Galt". Many doctors who deliver babies will quit if they are forced to kill them. Others will find that the Catholic hospital where they used to work have closed down. |
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It is unfortunate the executive evolved great power in the Great Depression. We will pay an equal or greater price once again.
It is no good talking about Obama or the next cretin. If you build the candystore, they will come, and keep coming. |
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Reading the posts of dread, vladmir, et al is like listening to 1st graders discussing single malt vs blended scotch.
Unless you simply enjoy displaying your ignorance, read-the-book. You can even get cliff notes and AUDIBLE.COM.
The test will be for us to see if the Rand's insights can penetrate the fortress of defensivness you have built around your shrine of ignorance. If you have a three digit IQ, I'll bet you might actually "get it".
Next read Free to Choose (Friedman).
Remember,,, a liberal is just an ignorant conservative.
Please come back after you know what you're talking about. |
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"Vladimir - Pardon me if I'm wrong..."
You're pardoned.
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"Reading the posts of dread, vladmir, et al is like listening to 1st graders discussing single malt vs blended scotch."
First-graders in Colorado drink scotch?
"Unless you simply enjoy displaying your ignorance, read-the-book. You can even get cliff notes and AUDIBLE.COM."
When I was in high school, about 40 years ago, a friend of mine would routinely wax ecstatic about Ayn Rand. "The Fountainhead" seemed to be more popular at the time, but he told me, "No, you gotta read 'Atlas Shrugged,' it's all there."
So I did. And yes, it's seductive stuff. But at some point, you have to grow up and live in the real world, and one of the things you learn to deal with is adults who patronize you with lectures about Ayn Rand. |
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[If you have a three digit IQ, I'll bet you might actually "get it".]
141, sweetheart.
[one of the things you learn to deal with is adults who patronize you with lectures about Ayn Rand.]
And how to dismiss trolls who don't bother actually answering or dealing with any points or arguments that were raised. |
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Are you saying that the tax system as espoused by your dear leader (Obama) won't punish the producers of society? His own words have said just that. If, after being punished for being a successful business person, what incentive will there be to be productive?
Your being so off the mark of the thesis of "Atlas Shrugged" means you are either blinded by your prejudices, ignorant, or are just sheep.
Please, put down the liberal kool-aid and get some common sense!
Fat chance.
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[If, after being punished for being a successful business person, what incentive will there be to be productive?]
Our system of taxation is a progressive one, which, among other things, means that everyone pays the same up to a certain income bracket.
So, let's say I make 300,000k a year. Only my income over 250,000 is subject to the current 35% tax bracket. So I pay the lower rate on all money under that mark, and I only pay the 35% rate on 50,000.
Now the rate on income above 250,000 gets hiked to 39%. So I lose a little more of that 50,000 that is above the 250k cut off for the lower tax rate.
The absurdity of your idea is that because I'm so outraged and 'punished' by having to pay a little more in taxes on that 50,000, that I'm going to choose to reduce (or cease) my labor, productivity and income so that I don't have to pay the higher rate so I can teach everyone else a lesson? The end result being that I hurt myself by foregoing the remainder of that 50,000 that I would have pocketed otherwise.
Or I could grumble about the tax rate, get over it, and work even harder, to make up that lost sum and then some and have a lot more money than I originally started with.
Which is the more rational course of action? Obviously the latter. And that is the course that most people will take.
As someone making 6 figures, I can freely tell you that I would much rather pay into that higher bracket because I would still be better off than I am now. |
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"Are you saying that the tax system as espoused by your dear leader (Obama) won't punish the producers of society?"
Is federal income tax the only tax you pay? Not me.
Did much higher federal tax brackets in the 1950s "punish" the producers? Where did they go?
Do the higher state tax brackets on the east and west coasts "punish" the producers of society? It would be odd if they did, since that's where most of the producers live.
In fact, the liberal coasts pay MORE in federal taxes than they receive in federal benefits. The liberals are subsidizing the conservative states with their tax dollars, so if anything, Ayn Rand's ideas are precisely backwards.
These theories remind of the scientists who can "prove" with equations that bumblebees cannot fly. |
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"Do the higher state tax brackets on the east and west coasts "punish" the producers of society?"
The answer is yes; which is why the true population growth is happening in states that normally vote Republican and have lower city and state taxes. After the 2010 census, you will likely see states such as TX, AZ, FL, GA, NC, UT gain Electoral College votes and state such as NY, NJ, PA, OH, MI, MA, IL lose them. There is a great chance in CA may lose an Electoral College vote, which I believe would be the first time ever. Yes FL and NC voted for Obama by a narrow margin in 2008, but they are traditionally Republican sates.
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"The answer is yes; which is why the true population growth is happening in states that normally vote Republican and have lower city and state taxes."
We're not talking about "people," we're talking about the DOERS, the PRODUCERS, the movers and shakers, the ATLASES the people with money. |
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Well the "people" are usually attracted to where the jobs are and where the best opportunities are i.e. where the “atlases” and “doers” are expanding their businesses.
If you want to look at it on a more global level, look at Dubai. The UAE has the lowest tax rate in the world. The only tax is a 5% social security tax. Why do you think that small country had taken off and attracted not just real estate but most corporations to open offices. Why do you think Hong Kong despite having no natural resources has always had a booming economy? Their top tax rate in 16%.
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called all of her Democrat neighbors together and said, 'If we plant this wheat, we shall have bread to eat. Who will help me plant it?'
'Not I,' said the cow.
'Not I,' said the duck.
'Not I,' said the pig.
'Not I,' said the goose.
'Then I will do it by myself,' said the little red hen, and so she did. The wheat grew very tall and ripened into golden grain.
'Who will help me reap my wheat?' asked the little red hen.
'Not I,' said the duck..
'Out of my classification,' said the pig.
'I'd lose my seniority,' said the cow.
'I'd lose my unemployment compensation,' said the goose.
'Then I will do it by myself,' said the little red hen, and so she did..
At last it came time to bake the bread.
'Who will help me bake the bread?' asked the little red hen.
'That would be overtime for me,' said the cow.
'I'd lose my welfare benefits,' said the duck.
'I'm a dropout and never learned how,' said the pig.
'If I'm to be the only helper, that's discrimination,' said the goose..
'Then I will do it by myself,' said the little red hen.
She baked five loaves and held them up for all of her neighbors to see. They wanted some and, in fact, demanded a share. But the little red hen said, 'No, I shall eat all five loaves.'
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'Excess profits!' cried the cow. (Nancy Pelosi)
'Capitalist leech!' screamed the duck. (Barbara Boxer)
'I demand equal rights!' yelled the goose. (Jesse Jackson)
The pig just grunted in disdain. (Ted Kennedy)
And they all painted 'Unfair!' picket signs and marched around and around the little red hen, shouting obscenities.
Then the farmer (Obama) came. He said to the little red hen, 'You must not be so greedy.'
'But I earned the bread,' said the little red hen.
'Exactly,' said Barack the farmer. 'That is what makes our free enterprise system so wonderful Anyone in the barnyard can earn as much as he wants. But under our modern government regulations, the productive workers must divide the fruits of their labor with those who are lazy and idle.'
And they all lived happily ever after, including the little red hen, who smiled and clucked, 'I am grateful, for now I truly understand.'
But her neighbors became quite disappointed in her. She never again baked bread because she joined the 'party' and got her bread free. And all the Democrats smiled. 'Fairness' had been established.
Individual initiative had died, but nobody noticed; perhaps no one cared...so long as there was free bread that 'the rich' were paying for.
EPILOGUE
Bill Clinton is getting $12 million for his memoirs.
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Going Galt, sister and I'm right behind you! |
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YOU ARE NOT ALONE......groups are forming all over the US in every city.
1. View this video
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6732659166933078950
2. Then get this book (Amazon ?) and read "THE 5000 YEAR LEAP" ...it is in short supply and you will begin to understand what we are about to lose.
3. Then join one of Glenn Beck's "WE SURROUND THEM" groups ( forming up all over the country) and help us save our Republic before it is too late.
Follow these links to understand how this works............ you can start a group in your area or town to view the unveiling of Glenn's program this Friday or record it (Tivo- DVR) and watch it later. This may be our last chance to save America from Socialism and save our Republic.....PLEASE GET INVOLVED BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE.
http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/198/21018 /
http://wesurroundthemmap.com/
http://www.meetup.com/We-Surround-Them-in-Fort-Worth/
4. And then for a little light reading......Ayn Rand's "ATLAS SHRUGGED" and learn who John Galt is (you will be hearing more about him).
All this should bring you up to speed and you can begin to help us save our country.
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YOU ARE NOT ALONE......groups are forming all over the US in every city.
1. View this video
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6732659166933078950
2. Then get this book (Amazon ?) and read "THE 5000 YEAR LEAP" ...it is in short supply and you will begin to understand what we are about to lose.
3. Then join one of Glenn Beck's "WE SURROUND THEM" groups ( forming up all over the country) and help us save our Republic before it is too late.
Follow these links to understand how this works............ you can start a group in your area or town to view the unveiling of Glenn's program this Friday or record it (Tivo- DVR) and watch it later. This may be our last chance to save America from Socialism and save our Republic.....PLEASE GET INVOLVED BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE.
http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/198/21018 /
http://wesurroundthemmap.com/
http://www.meetup.com/We-Surround-Them-in-Fort-Worth/
4. And then for a little light reading......Ayn Rand's "ATLAS SHRUGGED" and learn who John Galt is (you will be hearing more about him).
All this should bring you up to speed and you can begin to help us save our country.
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"Well the "people" are usually attracted to where the jobs are and where the best opportunities are i.e. where the “atlases” and “doers” are expanding their businesses."
And that's why all the software engineering, financial services, and health care businesses are moving to Wyoming (with zero income tax). |
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"Then join one of Glenn Beck's "WE SURROUND THEM" groups ( forming up all over the country) and help us save our Republic before it is too late."
Please sign up as many people as you can. And be sure to let everyone else know when you go out in public so we can bring our kids and watch and have a good laugh. |
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"And that's why all the software engineering, financial services, and health care businesses are moving to Wyoming (with zero income tax)."
No - But notice how many rich people have homes there? I can name several hedge fund managers who own homes there and claim that state as their permanent residence.
I live in NYC. I have seen our state's Electoral College vote count drop after every census. We are likely going to lose two more as people flee the state's high taxes and regulations.
Are you trying to argue against my point that as states such as TX, AZ, FL, GA, NC, UT are gaining Electoral College votes and state such as NY, NJ, PA, OH, MI, MA, IL are losing them? See you after the 2010 census.
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"Are you trying to argue against my point that as states such as TX, AZ, FL, GA, NC, UT are gaining Electoral College votes and state such as NY, NJ, PA, OH, MI, MA, IL are losing them? See you after the 2010 census."
No. We've already been around that once, I hope we don't have to go around again.
Are you trying to argue against my point that most of the productive weight of the U.S. economy is on the coasts?
Or that states who generally vote liberal are paying more in taxes than they get back? Now, perhaps you can argue, "Those liberals are so stupid, they're giving their money away." But then how do you explain that the people who are getting that money are the ones who rant about the big, bad government? |
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Hope this ends it all.
Glad you agree with me that blue states are losing electoral votes and red ones are gaining them.
I have never argued against - "most of the productive weight of the U.S. economy is on the coasts." That has always been the case going back to the founding of America. My point have been people are leaving high tax states and moving to states with lower taxes and that most of the job growth in recent years had been in those lower tax states. North Carolina has come out of nowhere to become a huge financial center. Prior to computers, fax, internet, express mail, etc. if you worked on Wall Street you really had to be in NYC. That is no longer the case.
Not going to argue "Those liberals are so stupid, they're giving their money away." I live in NYC, people can choose to live wherever they want. As much as I hate paying the high taxes, I was born and raised in NYC and I do not think I could live anywhere else.
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friggin' Buddha.
"Then join one of Glenn Beck's "WE SURROUND THEM" groups ( forming up all over the country) and help us save our Republic before it is too late."
Yes, by all means run off and join one your local weekend militias and follow Glenn Beck into crazytown, all over a 3% tax increase that most of you will never see or feel.
And I love how no one has bothered to even try and make a rational argument that in response to increasing taxes by that 3% on income over 250,000 dollars, it makes any sort of rational sense for a person to withdraw from society or stop earning more money for themselves just so they can stick it to 'the man'.
No, it's much easier to resort to jingoism and scream "GO GALT!" |
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