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Not a surprise to me, all you who VOTED dems into the leadership back in '06! |
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what will the democrats tax when they have finally driven cigarette sales to zero through increasingly high taxes? Stamping out smoking may be considered 'good' for the overall health of Americans but, the programs funded by tobacco taxes do not contain sunset provisions when the tax revenue fails to keep up with expenditures. |
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The US government has subsidized tobacco farmers for decades. They have to have money to keep them going since they are being forced to get out of the tobacco crop business. When I was in the AF in North Carolina the tobacco farmers were ecstatic about their entitlements and that was in the late 60s. Forty years later, we're still giving those farmers entitlements.
Taxing tobacco? That's an absolute no brainer. No one should be smoking anyhow. Tax it as much as you want.
One other point. Since statistics show that low income people tend to smoke more than other demographic groups, aren't they essentially paying for their own health insurance? |
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John,
You are great to alert us on this. This is one of several tax increases proposed by the LEFT. I think many have been "unknown" to the public due to the media.
1. This one to increase funds for universal healthcare.
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I don't know why people keep clinging to protecting Tobacco companies when they continually resort to importing the tobacco from Brazil, China, Indonesia, Turkey, etc. Born in Winston-Salem, I can tell you cigarette manufacturers loyalties are not with American farmers but with padding their own wallets. It would only be right if by supporting foreign farmers tobacco smokers would begin helping uninsured AMERICAN children.
And by the way, we've got to pay for this war somehow. The contractors are gouging the American taxpayer. Meanwhile that stalwart of American patriotism, Haliburton, has gone off to Dubai giving the middle-finger to Americans who voted their former Chief Executive into the Vice-Presidency.
Quit your whining and quit smoking while you're at it. |
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First of all, smoking cigars is much different than sucking down the pollution-packed crap in your average cigarette. I'm not suggesting cigars are "safe" by any means - but at least they're all-natural tobacco and not filled with the garbage RJ Reynolds et al pack into each and every cigarette.
I don't like higher taxes, but can understand the need to provide some sort of rudimentary, basic health care to every American. Any idiot who can't grasp this simple fact, I just don't know what to tell you.
I'm even willing to pay a bit for it via taxes, since offering preventative care should help lower or at least contain skyrocketing health care expenses, of which care for the un/under-insured contributes mightily.
But a flat, $10/cigar tax? In many cases, that would represent TWICE what the actual product itself costs. That is just wrong, regardless of how you feel about smoking.
And folks wonder why we hate politicians... |
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Taxing those who smoke makes sense - whether they are rich or poor. Why should the rest of us pay the medical costs associated with their bad habit? Yes, the smokers are in a sense paying for their own medical care....Insurance rates are higher for smokers, what's wrong with that?
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The same government that is taking 12 weeks to process 500,000 passports, now wants to handle your health care!! (Currently 3 million people are waiting...)
They think they can somehow manage the health care of over 300 million people!
Now imagine the wait time for that emergency bypass surgery needed for 500,000 people, another 500,000 people needing chemotherapy treatments, and other 500,000 needing an MRI, or for a blood transfusion.
Every doctor appointment, procedure, referral, surgery, and every medical perscription must be approved by the government!!
At least the people waiting 12 weeks for a passport get to go on vacation after their long wait!
But's it's free.... so it must be worth the wait! |
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Keep in mind, what I and others would propose for "universal health care" would be simply access to preventative care. You could perhaps throw in group rates for elective or more serious surgery, but personally basic preventative care would be a great thing.
The passport analogy isn't a good one, this would be severely de-centralised, probably operating in a similar fashion as private services. In fact, that's exactly who would likely provide the services.
I agree with taxing smokes, but a little reason is needed here. $10 a cigar is simply outrageous and silly. |
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"Taxing tobacco? That's an absolute no brainer. No one should be smoking anyhow. Tax it as much as you want." You are absolutely correct. It is the responsibility of each of us to make sure no one is damaging their health. Heart disease is the number one cause of premature deaths in this country, and the majority of nutritionists agree that ice cream is bad for your heart, hence we must begin levying large taxes on ice cream. Also, surfing is statistically the most dangerous sport whereby many of the participants needlessly injure themselves and consume inordinate amounts of health care. Therefore, we must implement large taxes on surf boards and charge a use fee for any one paddling out on the ocean with one. Of course the revenue generated will be applied to health care costs similar to how the tobacco settlements were. What do you think?
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20,000 percent sounds very scary. If it was a 20,000 percent INCOME tax hike, it would be scary. It would also be economic suicide. In reality what we're looking at in a 20,000 percent hike on cigar tax, is a lot of hubabaloo about nothing. It's a way to sensationalize taxes.
What we ought to be concerned with in reality, is the run-a-way spending of this Republican President, that we and our kids will be paying for for the rest of our lives. We'll be paying for it, by the way, with not just necessarily higher taxes, but a greater tax burden on the middle class, but also with a culling of the middle class. Hope you like your new service job. |
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...we start taxing Carbon Credits. |
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Our taxes have jumped, leapt, hopped, etc.
And now housing prices have droped 40-60%. Our unemployment is #1 in the nation. Crime is skyrocketing, the roads are crumbling, and most important... drug use has increased more than any other state.
Go Liberals Go! Thanks for the smoke up my a--! |
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I disagree with your statements, and I take some offense at your grouping of people who disagree with you as "idiots" right off the bat:
1) "I don't like higher taxes, but can understand the need to provide some sort of rudimentary, basic health care to every American. Any idiot who can't grasp this simple fact, I just don't know what to tell you."
2) "Keep in mind, what I and others would propose for "universal health care" would be simply access to preventative care. You could perhaps throw in group rates for elective or more serious surgery, but personally basic preventative care would be a great thing."
I am one of those people who does not want any universal form of health care. I want NO GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION, not even the involvement the government already has in widespread health coverage for kids. I pay a huge amount for my own personal health insurance, and I certainly don't want to pay higher taxes so others can get it free from Uncle Sam. This is a fundamental conservative issue for me and it is in keeping with conservative and fiscally sound thinking. In other words, I support NO tax and spend mentality, no entitlement mentality and as big a reduction in federal giveaways as possible. Other people disagree and want different things. They have that right.
I have read several of your posts and I know you say that you are employed in the health care field. But it is unclear what side of the health care industry you work in. Making a statement like "you could perhaps throw in group rates for elective or more serious surgery...." is not clear to me. The government is not a health insurance carrier or a health plan, nor is it any kind of underwriter. Who exactly is supposed to negotiate -- and with which providers exactly -- a "group rate" for any kind of surgery? And for WHAT kind of surgery? Does this include outpatient procedures? With all providers? Or will there be a network of approved providers for the preventative care you speak of? Who is going to credential those providers? And, here is the granddaddy question of them all: Who adjudicates and pay claims? The government -- as in the same group that handles Medicare?
You blend medically necessary (which you label more serious) surgery and elective surgery into the same barrel, and they are far from the same barrel -- and it's a very deal to private health care providers. Even health plans that are large, commercial and successful have incredibly strict limitations around what can be considered elective surgery -- and most of the time, no one gets coverage for elective surgery. Surgery MUST be medically necessary for a commercial insurer to include it within acceptable claims and with acceptable claim payment amounts. Do you think the government will accommodate elective surgery? Hopefully, not with MY tax dollars.
You talk to Linda about government-run "universal" preventative health care supposedly being decentralized. So far, the government's primary and only moderately successful involvement in health care expenses has been Medicare for those over 65. Medicare has a 30-plus-year history in this country and if there is one thing Medicare is not, that's decentralized.
It's always helpful to have lots of contributors with lots of different backgrounds. I'm all for debate, but when you start right calling people who don't share your view idiots -- well, that is certainly less than open-minded.
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greenkansas writes: 20,000 percent sounds very scary. If it was a 20,000 percent INCOME tax hike, it would be scary. It would also be economic suicide. In reality what we're looking at in a 20,000 percent hike on cigar tax, is a lot of hubabaloo about nothing. It's a way to sensationalize taxes.
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Sure, sure, hullabaloo about nothing. Funny, I seem to have heard of some guys who thought a tea tax that was tiny by comparison to this cigar tax was worth a big hullabaloo. Seems like it was part of a larger problem or something. Do you remember what I'm talking about?
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I do not support the Democrats plan. Yet I hope all of you know we are paying for that healthcare now! |
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There is a double standard concerning alcohol and cigarettes.
Of course smoking is bad for your health, but so is drinking. Nobody smokes a cigarette then goes out in the car and kills an innocent family, or shoots their spouse, or beats up the children, or loses their job, or destroys their family, etc. etc. etc.
Tax alcohol out of existence. No, I'm not a smoker. |
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The Dims have already catorgorized and numbered the "tax Priority List" and it probably goes something like this...
Tobacco - Lung Cancer, emphezema(sic),etc
Fast Food - Obesity, Heart Attacks, Diabetes
Candy - Tooth Decay
You name it they'll TAX IT!!!
But not to worry about a tax on alcohol...Not so long as Ted Kennedy is still a member of the Senate!!!
w/o=
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Hell I dont know why they would want to tax CIGS
the research Ive seen on smoking is that most people who die of lung cancer never smoked in their life, SO if smokers are not dying of lung cancer how can we make the statement that second hand smoke kills people? We let these people take over becauce we were mad at the REPS for not following the Conseverative Ways. Now I think the American people can see what they are really about. BIG TAXES,GOVERNMENT and BIG MOUTHED. Im still waiting on my NANCY P(100 DAY PLAN)that they promised the American People. |
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I wonder how palatable it would be if they called it the S.H.I.T. for State Health Insurance Tax.
I believe in personal freedoms and smoke a good cigar about once a week or two but I don't think we should be paying socialist taxes because of the health care. Most people who smoke cigars will not smoke 20 per week as is the case with a pack or even carton of cigarettes. These people should have to pay higher insurance premiums. Look at George Burns, he lived to be almost 100 and smoked cigars and had a nip of brandy every day of his life.
Don't tax the many for the ignorant few.
You can tax fattening Food but you'd better reduce the price of fresh vegetables to give incentives for those that are willing to try and make a difference.
Ths same for cigarettes. People who use moderation in smoking a cigar shouldn't have to pay the same tax as those who take a 15 min smoke break every 45 min! Like I said earlier, I do smoke cigars and I have never had to have one in the middle of the day or take a break. My blood pressure was 113 / 66 just last week.
MODERATION IS THE KEY.
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mind closed shut. Government run anything, including military operations, are the epitome of inefficiency and waste. Even Canada and France have had to have second thoughts about their answer to "universal health care". It doesn't work! Would like the person at the DMV to perform surgery on you?? What kink of doctors are you going to get if they are paid as civil servants and have more rules and regulations to go by than they do now (due to way too much government interference now)? Did you notice what happened in Britain recently with all those imported doctors they need because only imported doctors will work for the tiny pay the government authorizes? Do you want to import terrorist doctors here as well??
Libdolt idiots never learn anything!! |
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If tobacco products are as bad as the government portrays them to be, then why doesn't the same government ban them? Could it be that the government is equally addicted to the tax revenue of these products as the smokers are themselves addicted to the product?
This hypocritical hooey of, "It's for the children" is pure cow pucky, if Capitol Hill gave a rats behind about the children they would ban tobacco products the way the have banned dodge ball. Come to think about it how many kids have died from the effects of dodge ball and how many kids have died from lung cancer as adults?
Congress is merely working in concert with the equally greedy states to increase taxes and using the children as an convenient excuse.
The corrupt, lying, cheating, no-count dirty rotten scoundrels are using our kids as their front men for raising taxes. Tobacco taxes today, restaurant industry tomorrow. |
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People who have been addicted for their entire life get hurt the worst by cigarette taxes - guess the Ds don't like old people.
Yes, smokers drive up ins costs for non-smokers ... maybe there should be a gay tax too. Gays drive up ins costs for non-gays.
One cigarette won't kill you - but one wrong back door might ... |
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