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is that the HMO was the scurge of the health care world, because it rationed care. Now, we have a system where the government will ration health care. People in favor of the government doing this say that the government's rationing will be fairer because the government doesn't have the profit motive of the HMOs. I fail to see what difference it would make to a person being denied health care whether the denial comes from a profit motive or government "compassion". |
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e. emanuel made it quite clear that the administration would like to see a two-tiered citizenship who are participating citizens. This tier would be entitled to more medical care than the other tier.
The other tier is comprised of those citizens who are (and here I quote emanuel) "irreversibly prevented from being or becoming participating citizens. Citizens in this tier would be denied medical granted to citizens in the first tier.
obama, the kenyan's, administration and the Congressional Dems are determined to have a government mandated two-tier citizenship.
How far is the obama, the kenyan's, and the Congressional Dems idea of two-tiered citizenship from outright slavery? Not far, in my opinion.
campbell, if you GOP Reps and Sens. cannot stop this two-tiered medical care system, you are NOT TRYING. I know of no one in America who believes there should be two levels of citizenship in our country.
do you guys even know what the Declaration of Independence says? How about the part about "...all men are created EQUAL"?
Can the intelligent members of the House and Senate stop the government from, without reason, snooping through my private medical records?
Since when is what meidical treatment I choose the government's business?
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by wealth. By type of plan you have. By insurance companies who cancel your coverage if you use it too much. By insurance companies who won't cover you because you have a pre-existing condition.
If the GOP is willing to regulate the insurance industry (in much the same way the car insurance industry is...i.e. if you have lots of tickets and accidents, you still get insurance under the assigned risk plan...costs a bit more, but you have it), then maybe people will listen to the GOP. When when the claim is that very few people really cannot afford insurance and just choose not to have it, why is that any different from uninsured motorist coverage? We pay a fee just in case someone who isn't insured hits us. In many states (including mine), if you are uninsured and get hit by someone who is insured, you have no rights to collect at all. That's the 'penalty' for driving without insurance.
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No measured tones, seeing things from all sides, granting credibility to the opposition's view. Actual, true straight up words. Dang, you're starting to sound like a conservative. Think you could get the other Redumblicans up to speed? |
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When when the claim is that very few people really cannot afford insurance and just choose not to have it, why is that any different from uninsured motorist coverage? We pay a fee just in case someone who isn't insured hits us. In many states (including mine), if you are uninsured and get hit by someone who is insured, you have no rights to collect at all. That's the 'penalty' for driving without insurance. ___________________________________________________
There are also states that have what is called "no fault" insurance. This guarantees that YOUR insurance will pay if someone hits you who doesn't have insurance. Also, there is a requirement that you must have insurance before you can get your car registered, which is every year. However, people simply buy insurance until they get there car registered and cancel.
There are NO FOOL PROOF ways for auto or healthcare. Just keep government out of it! |
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It that what happened to your dad. Rationed care? Why didn't you help with all that money you have. You know get him the best of care. Why did you let your parents go broke and not help them? |
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Party of No...party's on...no ideas just bogus charts, nothing to say, just same talking points, nothing to solve just more distractions.....everything is literally black and white -cambridge distraction....party of god lovers and anti-baby killers...but screw you when you get here....BTW dumba$$ Diane...i'm anti-abortion....I just find it hyprocritical to care about humans only in certain instances and not in general.....Party of quitters....Just a bunch of whining illogical ranters with keyboards....Party On....Can i get a Hell NO! |
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Wasn't he a Socialist....when did that get a bad rap.... |
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"healthcare is already rationed by wealth. By type of plan you have. By insurance companies who cancel your coverage if you use it too much. By insurance companies who won't cover you because you have a pre-existing condition.....If the GOP is willing to regulate the insurance industry ..."
No, it isn't wealth but prices. Prices are the ultimate indicator of scarcity. In 1988 there were only 19 MRI machines in the entire US, and MRIs would only allowed for the most extreme cases (because one MRI could cost over $10,000). Today, even the rural hospitals have them, and the costs are under $300.
The Health Industry is already over-regulated. Each state has its own set of regulations, as does several federal agencies. Health insurance companies are some of the most over-regulated in the nation. |
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Reform requires only that we stand aside whilst Uncle Nanny vastly diminishes our uniquely American Liberties & Freedoms and thieves our $$-Money.
So, like, what's all the like, you know, Fuss about, Duuuudes??? |
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So, you just admitted you don't disagree with the facts, but instead wish to ignore them. Just like a liberal to call a fact he doesn't like a "talking point."
Heck, Congress's own CBO admitted that ObamaCare will not save a penny (okay, it will save .02% over ten years in some areas). But, overall ObamaCare will need at least $1.5 trillion of additional taxpayer's money just to break even. Either more taxes will have to be levied, or $1.5 trillion of health care will have to be rationed (ie withheld), or the US will have to borrow that $1.5 trillion. Those are the facts. You don't have to like them, but there's no getting around them.
Currently, if you look at private health care insurance, there are no defecits. Pricing relfects costs and demand. And over 82% of the voting population is happy with thier current plans. Obama would take that, and create a $1.5 trillion defecit. People would overall pay more and receive less. What is there not to like about it? |
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I know how the government could save millions, if not billions: substitute a tape loop for all public statements by Republicans in Congress. "No, we're not going to do that."
There are all kinds of tough arguments to be made against Obama's health care plan. Not a single one has ever been heard from a Republican. Conservatism continues on its path to being road kill, and nobody's helping them. |
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You may wish to reconsider your statement. Come November 2010, the House of Rep may have a different Speaker and majority. There are 57 Blue Dogs representing districts that have voted for either McCain or Bush in the last 3 elections. The fall-out from the Blue Dogs caving for the Cap and Trade has created quite a firestorm across these districts. It is no wonder that they are very reluctant to vote for ObamaCare; thier vote would be a death sentence for thier political careers. Pelosi knows this, as does the President. The GOP is recovering quicker than thought because of Cap and Trade and ObamaCare. If ObamaCare passes, all bets are off come November 2010. |
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You're "Friend" Estrogen is at 4:00pm, Duuuude. Go get his a**! |
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Arch can add to the list of liars Kaboom. He has two to work on now. I am sure he is up to the task, |
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"I admit, I am little worked up about this. But darn it, it's really important."
You're right, it is important. It's important that the U.S. not go with the Democrats' plan, and instead, eliminate insurance companies entirely and get Single-payer right now. It works in every other country that does it, and if you don't think it does, then your eyes are simply closed to the facts. Every statistic available shows how horrible insurance companies are for health, and how continuing to allow them to exist causes waste and death in the extreme. If you, a supposed economic conservative, who prefers not to waste money, actually thinks that this system we have now is not a waste, then you are paying no attention.
Yes, it is important. It is important to change this system that is killing Americans every day. And anyone who is complicit in sticking with this system is guilty of letting those Americans die. If letting Americans die is what you find important, please, by all means, stick with your godawful plan to let the insurance companies continue to exist. And your party, and country, can continue to wither and die as it is right now while the rest of the world makes progress with healthy and happy citizens who aren't forced to throw thousands of dollars down the wasteful gullet of companies that literally profit off of the death of others. |
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"And your party, and country, can continue to wither and die as it is right now while the rest of the world makes progress with healthy and happy citizens who aren't forced to throw thousands of dollars down the wasteful gullet of companies that literally profit off of the death of others."
Please feel free to flee this horrible country for one of those in the rest of the world who have made so much progress with healthy and happy citizens, I am sure no one here will miss you. Go now we do not want you to miss one more minute of that happiness. |
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As you know this single payer disaster will make Katrina look like a sunday shower .The employer provisions will kill jobs and destroy small buisness . Here are few things in the bill • Page 22: Mandates audits of all employers that self-insure.
• Page 29: Admission: your health care will be rationed.
• Page 30: A government committee will decide what treatments and benefits you get (and, unlike with an insurer, there will be no appeals process)\
• Page 42: The "Health Choices Commissioner" will decide health benefits for you. You will have no choice. None.
• Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free healthcare services.
• Page 58: Every person will be issued a National ID Healthcard.
• Page 59: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to all individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer.
• Page 65: Taxpayers will subsidize all union retiree and community organizer health plans (read: SEIU, UAW and ACORN)
• Page 72: All private healthcare plans must conform to government rules to participate in a Healthcare Exchange.
• Page 84: All private healthcare plans must participate in the Healthcare Exchange (i.e., total government control of private plans)
Scary is it not and this is not even the first 100 pages no wonder they will not read it ! |
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You have pointed out just a few of the heinous things in this bill. Of course not worth being read by those who will vote on this disaster. |
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Is it the lobbyists who make millions getting crap (for lack of a better or more correct term) passed? Is it the Special Interest groups who do the same? Is there a shadow government that is secretly trying to take this country down with Obama as their puppet? Just who exactly is writing this tripe and trying to effect all these insane new regulations of the peope through the nonsensical Bills that are nothing but BAD for America?? It has to be somoene who is in the shadows because no one in Washington did it, hell they don't even know what they say. Obama didn't do it, he doesn't know what they say either. The next new Bill that comes out should be from the people to the goverment and it should say:
The only Bill you will read will be what We The People want. every word of will be written by regular folks. The first thing in it should say that Special Interest groups and Lobbyists should immediately banned from Washington. |
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My wife just told me this,She's glad she got cancer when she did instead of after this ,if it goes through . Heartbreaking commentary |
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"The first thing in it should say that Special Interest groups and Lobbyists should immediately banned from Washington."
Silly demagoguery. You should know that you have a lot of lobbyists in Washington looking out for YOUR interests. I don't care if you're liberal, conservative, old, young, black, white, gay, straight, Christian, atheist - there are people in D.C. getting paid to get laws and policies that benefit YOU. So stop with the stupid redneck chants.
Second, read the paper now and then and you'll see that in the case of the health care bill(s), it's the lobbyists and special interests who are doing what YOU want. |
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You whined about the patriot act ,this health care bill is far more intrusive .the goverment will now control your body and your wallet . |
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No tort reform in the bill and now I hear that trial lawyers want a 1.6 billion dollar tax break. Gee, looks like they are looking for big pay backs for their support. Can anyone take this administration seriously. Take from the people and give to the big donors, sounds honest to me. |
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typical lib thinking anything goes as long as it's for them and helps them accumulate more power . Some animals are more equal than others! rings truer today than ever |
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Well of course not all Special Intetest Groups and Lobbyists are the problem, but many of them do promtote bad policys for America. Where else do you thknk it comes from? Not Congress, they don't even know what is in the things. And just WHO do you beleive is writing these idiotic Bills that want so much intrusion into our freedoms and privacy? I'm waiting for your enlightened explanation. Or perhaps you don't know half as much as you beleive you do. |
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So Diane, basically what you're saying is that even though you acknowledge the system sucks, you're far too prideful to want to change anything about it, and any of us who've actually looked into it at all, and have an intelligent idea of how to fix it and reduce waste, should head to another country so you can continue to die off here in America because you're too prideful to admit that your country has done anything wrong?
Sounds like someone is flying too close to the sun. |
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